[kelmund]

Naturally without pesticide, plants are able to fend off attacks from insects. to proof my points, grow 2 identical plants and feed on on a high brix regime and one on conventional fert. see which one die 1st from insect attacks.

Thesis:

since insects have no livers they die from sugar induced alcohol posioning if they eat or attack sweet plants.(high brix)

See what happens when you add sugar to soil.

1.suagr become liquid sugar.
2. liquid sugar feed soil bateria and yeast = alcohol
3. increase bateria & yeast = more nutrients for plant to absorb
4. more bateria and yeast = faster alcohol reaction. = kill more insects.
5. oxygen convert alcohol into vinegar = help soil building + kill insect and bad bacteria(vinegar is an disinfectant) so only good and beneficial bacteria and yeast survive.
6. beneficial bateria and yeast produce antibiotics for plants.
7. more SOM means more healthy and beneficial will migrate to your garden, so far i have butterflies, bees, earth worms, geckos, lizards and even lady bugs visiting my garden. = better results from gardening
8. plants with anti biotics can withstand stress better and fend off insect attacks.
9. healthy plants produce more sugar and vitamins to feed good soil bateria and yeasts.
10. we harvest plants and fruits for our healthy consumption since it have so many goodness in it.
(good for us to help plant propagate, bad for insect that wants plant to die.)

1.thus you can kill root mealies by adding sugar to soil, contrary to attracting ants once you add sugar and put some water for the sugar to dissolve, soil bateria will go to work by converting sugar into alcohol, if root mealies present, they will die from alcohol attack.

2. aphid and mealies,scales etc all die from above the plants. even catepillars hates high brix plants. recently i accidenally killed some catepillars by adding too much nutrients in my lime plant.

plant that absorb sugar into sap will similarly act as the same way, i.e natural systemic insecticide.

thus i do not really use insecticides anymore but invest in good fertilizers like rock phosphate, sugar molass, trace minerals, rock dust, dungs and compost, hormones and seaweed solutions that really gives you more kick per dollar spend coz plant looks super healthy and you don't need to worry about bad bugs.


Testimonials:

HL gives me some plants heavily infested with aphids, mealies and etc....those that i grow with methods prostulated above survived and prospered. no more bad bugs for my pepino and chillis. the one grown in ground without much fertlizers had gone to heaven liao.

This post has been edited by kelmund: 10 June 2009 - 12:07 AM

[SweeYeow]

Naturally without pesticide, plants are able to fend off attacks from insects. to proof my points, grow 2 identical plants and feed on on a high brix regime and one on conventional fert. see which one die 1st from insect attacks.

Thesis:

since insects have no livers they die from sugar induced alcohol posioning if they eat or attack sweet plants.(high brix)

....

Testimonials:

HL gives me some plants heavily infested with aphids, mealies and etc....those that i grow with methods protulated above survived and prospered. no more bad bugs for my pepino and chillis. the one grown in ground without much fertlizers had gone to heaven liao.

Hi Kelmund, thanks so much for this very interesting information.

I have some questions :

1) Can we spray sugar solution instead of putting sugar and then watering ?

2) If spray is feasible, does it matter if some solution spread on the leaves or stems ?

3) How frequent do we need to do the feeding ?

Thanks in advanced !

Cheers,
SY

[kelmund]

Hi Kelmund, thanks so much for this very interesting information.

I have some questions :

1) Can we spray sugar solution instead of putting sugar and then watering ?

2) If spray is feasible, does it matter if some solution spread on the leaves or stems ?

3) How frequent do we need to do the feeding ?

Thanks in advanced !

Cheers,
SY

QUOTE (whatthymeisit @ Jun 4 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Sorry to be asking really basic questions. But while we're at this, how often should these nutrients be fed to plants?
Say for example, if I use B1, seaweed extract, epsom salt, rock phosphate and sugar. Obviously I can't feed the plants all these together once a week. So shld I rotate all and use 1 each week? That makes it a 5-week cycle.

Yes, thats what i do most of the time, this week acid regime = RP+sulphur+chix dung

week 2 foliar spray with seaweed, hormone, super K + abit of urea to help absorption. + add sugar if needed, magnesium etc.(basically its the micro nutrients' week)

week 3 alkaline regime = ASH(potash) or Ca+ powder, bonemeal.

week 4 foliar, add sugar if needed

week 5 acid regime

week 6 foliar

week 7 alkaline regime

buy RP from Eazzysg, get lime from KW3288

my output is similar to bokashi's organic greens, so far my tenants love eating my garden veggies as it's super green and sweet.

[peterlim128]

QUOTE (whatthymeisit @ Jun 4 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Sorry to be asking really basic questions. But while we're at this, how often should these nutrients be fed to plants?
Say for example, if I use B1, seaweed extract, epsom salt, rock phosphate and sugar. Obviously I can't feed the plants all these together once a week. So shld I rotate all and use 1 each week? That makes it a 5-week cycle.

Yes, thats what i do most of the time, this week acid regime = RP+sulphur+chix dung

week 2 foliar spray with seaweed, hormone, super K + abit of urea to help absorption. + add sugar if needed, magnesium etc.(basically its the micro nutrients' week)

week 3 alkaline regime = ASH(potash) or Ca+ powder, bonemeal.

week 4 foliar, add sugar if neededI

week 5 acid regime

week 6 foliar

week 7 alkaline regime

buy RP from Eazzysg, get lime from KW3288

my output is similar to bokashi's organic greens, so far my tenants love eating my garden veggies as it's super green and sweet.

I found your post interesting and I like to try
Can you advise and confirm my understanding

a) sprinkle sugar (I assuming it is common sugar we use) on the surface of soil and water immly
ants will not be attracted.
c) can I use it on chilli and herbs because I found a lot of pests such as mealy bugs and whiteflies.

regds
Peter

[kelmund]

I found your post interesting and I like to try
Can you advise and confirm my understanding

a) sprinkle sugar (I assuming it is common sugar we use) on the surface of soil and water immly
ants will not be attracted.
c) can I use it on chilli and herbs because I found a lot of pests such as mealy bugs and whiteflies.

regds
Peter

yes try not to put ard root zone but at the fringe of your pot. water till sugar wet, thru its inherent humicant properties. it will absorb water from air and surrounding to make it totally dissolved.

[crazyjellie]

QUOTE (whatthymeisit @ Jun 4 2009, 05:30 PM) *
Sorry to be asking really basic questions. But while we're at this, how often should these nutrients be fed to plants?
Say for example, if I use B1, seaweed extract, epsom salt, rock phosphate and sugar. Obviously I can't feed the plants all these together once a week. So shld I rotate all and use 1 each week? That makes it a 5-week cycle.

Yes, thats what i do most of the time, this week acid regime = RP+sulphur+chix dung

week 2 foliar spray with seaweed, hormone, super K + abit of urea to help absorption. + add sugar if needed, magnesium etc.(basically its the micro nutrients' week)

week 3 alkaline regime = ASH(potash) or Ca+ powder, bonemeal.

week 4 foliar, add sugar if needed

week 5 acid regime

week 6 foliar

week 7 alkaline regime

buy RP from Eazzysg, get lime from KW3288

my output is similar to bokashi's organic greens, so far my tenants love eating my garden veggies as it's super green and sweet.

kelmund, this is very interesting
can you share how much of each items do you use?
eg
acid regime = RP+sulphur+chix dung. how much will you use for a 12" pot?
foliar spray = full strength per instruction or diluted? how much sugar to sprinkle for a 12" pot?
alkaline regime = ASH(potash) or Ca+ powder, bonemeal. same qn as acid regime

TIA

[petunialee]

Hey Kelmund, thanks for this... I was experimenting cautiously with a mixture of worm castings + chix dung + sugar (or evaporated milk) steeped for 3 days in the sun. It stinks to high heaven but the plants seem to like it and I thought I observed some soil mealy casualties in my thai basil plant too... But I wasn't too sure.

I was told that the beneficial bacteria in worm castings would protect the plants from pests and also break down fertiliser. So I had the idea to add a bit of sugar into the worm castings tea to encourage their growth. Then I added chix dung so that the bacteria could break it down.

I'm happy that you've confirmed that my bacteria culture does annihilate soil mealies. Mwahahahahahahahaha!

This post has been edited by petunialee: 09 June 2009 - 01:47 PM

[Xmen2]

Thanks for sharing Kelmund, one question from me, for the sugar + water method, will it change the soil PH? will it make the soil more acid?

[kelmund]

Thanks for sharing Kelmund, one question from me, for the sugar + water method, will it change the soil PH? will it make the soil more acid?

yes but it will moderate it towards ph 6.8 as any excess will be buffered with humic acid and fulmic acid. those cannot dissovle will be in non solvent form and stay in soil until any other ph change. please be inform that once the solute reached saturation, it will leach out between watering or solidify in your soil. hence feed your bacteria and yeast, let the soil "pets" help you to garden. so less tilling needed, coz soil fluffy, less fertilizing needed(coz "pets" at work), less watering coz soil will absorb moisture from air.(in the past we can see dews form in our plants in the morning, same principles), pest resistance coz of synergistic effects and natural anti-biotic. if you do your regime well, soil ph will stay between 6.8 +- 0.25-0.3.

Ultimately what we want to achieve here is:

1. What is good for us is bad for the pest
(imagine tasty fruits and veggies with lotsa nutrients and probiotics.)
2. What is bad for us is good for the pest.
(imagine tasteless fruits and veggies)


Also think of the amount of cheap compost and chix dung we add to the mix as investment not dollars spend. once you receive the healthy plants and reaped the fruits of your harvest. it will return a hundred times your original investments. i recently am tempted to buy neem extract, triluxon and provado to k some woolly aphids. i decide against it and use high brix methods. i added lime and most of them are gone now.

also i will like to highlight the rare veggies and nutritious food we grow will nourish us and save more $$$ in the long run. i.e. buy insecticide, the ROI is inferior to buy better cheap and powerful fert like dung and compost. they are cheap and very powerful. furthermore, we will do our part to help our local economy as most chem fert and insecticide are imported vs local produced by product like chix dung and compost. Modern Chix dung is not shit that is smelly like the one farmers use in the yesteryear, they are super sterilised and have also no smell. no perfume but an earthy smell you will find accommodating. I find our local dung slightly better in smell then our imported dungs. also the aged dung develop this whitish mycelium that is protien decomposed into nutrients plants can utilize very efficiently and increase their brix and nutrient contents.(cheap and good)

on saving $$$, one bag of organic produce in our local supermarket will easily cost us about $20.00. we can get similar output from our (hdb or landed) home grown veggies but at a slower pace due to different ripening time and harvesting efforts. our home grown produce is no inferior to super market's but taste wise its is subjective. an example in point will be to grow headless kailan, Roselle, ceylon spinach, earth ginseng and purslane for leaves substitute, the organic grown veggies do taste superior in taste. for cucumbers, tomatoes and fruits i have similar experiences but they are not as economical and need a bigger real estate.

so far every week i have something ripening or at harvest-able stage in my humble garden at TPY, this is after my tenants had taken their share. hence its 100% doable.

About the amount of nutrients per pot plant will depend on your plant and feel. i cannot prescribe anything here coz i'm also learning.

That's why i post this thread so we can learn from one another from the results we obtained and strive to make our thumbs greener.

of course one can buy brix meters and infra red nutrient density detectors. but i guess that's more suited to professional farmer and we hobbyist should adopt 1 maxim i learnt from weekend gardener.
"gardening should be fun and not too complex and backbreaking"

cheers

This post has been edited by kelmund: 10 June 2009 - 12:06 AM

[skyfiery]

Kelmund, I have a few questions:

1. How long does it take between the act of adding the sugar into the soil and seeing a positive effect on the plant? - whether it be fruiting/flowering, or getting rid of pests?

2. How much sugar for a regular sized pot? (Don't need to bury the sugar right?)


Anything else you think I should note? I'm gonna try it out on my sawtooth coriander today. Hoping to post the results once they're seen.

Thanks

Sky

[Yetat]

Does honey works too? As I think some honey have benefical bacteria inside and contains lots of sweetness.

[Weekendfarmer]

Hi Kelmund,

Thanks for the quote. Yes, in my organic vegetable farm which I tend only on weekends, I get a lot of free advice from fellow gardeners. So much that I sometimes get confused, so I always remind myself that I am doing this because I enjoy being with nature not because I want to be the perfect gardener/farmer - why stress myself? I only grow those that are able to adapt well to the soil condition in my farm. If it is easy to amend the soil to suit a certain species, I may do it, if not, that species will go into my "black book".

Of course there are those that get satisfaction from digging deep to find the solution to a perfect garden - for that, Kelmund, you get my kow tow .

Good taste is subjective. There are those who like hydroponically grown veggies claiming that they taste "crunchier" and "juicier". Others say organically grown veggies do not look healthy. Some even say that I am crazy, why grow your own veggies and pay a monthly fee for the plot when you can pay a few dollars and get a big bunch from the market. Some understand and some will never. Again do what you enjoy doing - we are not here to proof anything.

All my veggies are grown the organic way i.e. without synthetic fertilisers and nutrients, even the water that we used for irrigation is either ground or rainwater. Commercially grown veggies are grown for profit, so they are "forced" to grow big and nice within the shortest time and at the cheapest cost. By doing this, veggies are not allowed to grow naturally, thus the lack of fibre and taste when compared to those grown organically. Not to mention the chemicals that get trapped within (those that can't be washed off) and finally gets into the food chain and into our bodies. Kelmund, I am sure you will agree that your veggies taste sweeter and more fibrous compared to market bought types. Again, there are those that do not like organic veggies because they are not used to the fibrous feel inside their mouth - unfortunately they do not know what is good for them.

I can go on and on with this topic - but I think you know what I am trying to say.

Happy gardening!

Weekendfarmer

[petunialee]

Hi Kelmund,

Thanks for the quote. Yes, in my organic vegetable farm which I tend only on weekends, I get a lot of free advice from fellow gardeners. So much that I sometimes get confused, so I always remind myself that I am doing this because I enjoy being with nature not because I want to be the perfect gardener/farmer - why stress myself? I only grow those that are able to adapt well to the soil condition in my farm. If it is easy to amend the soil to suit a certain species, I may do it, if not, that species will go into my "black book".

Of course there are those that get satisfaction from digging deep to find the solution to a perfect garden - for that, Kelmund, you get my kow tow .

Good taste is subjective. There are those who like hydroponically grown veggies claiming that they taste "crunchier" and "juicier". Others say organically grown veggies do not look healthy. Some even say that I am crazy, why grow your own veggies and pay a monthly fee for the plot when you can pay a few dollars and get a big bunch from the market. Some understand and some will never. Again do what you enjoy doing - we are not here to proof anything.

All my veggies are grown the organic way i.e. without synthetic fertilisers and nutrients, even the water that we used for irrigation is either ground or rainwater. Commercially grown veggies are grown for profit, so they are "forced" to grow big and nice within the shortest time and at the cheapest cost. By doing this, veggies are not allowed to grow naturally, thus the lack of fibre and taste when compared to those grown organically. Not to mention the chemicals that get trapped within (those that can't be washed off) and finally gets into the food chain and into our bodies. Kelmund, I am sure you will agree that your veggies taste sweeter and more fibrous compared to market bought types. Again, there are those that do not like organic veggies because they are not used to the fibrous feel inside their mouth - unfortunately they do not know what is good for them.

I can go on and on with this topic - but I think you know what I am trying to say.

Happy gardening!

Weekendfarmer

Yeah... I agree. Gardening is play time and it's fun to eat home grown veggies and experiment with new ways of feeding and protecting plants.

[wmeng72]

What en eyeopening post. I will definately give it a try. Although I bought triluxon to treat the root mealies, I will try using your method first. I have the same questions as Skyfire though.

Another question I have is that how do you confirm the root mealies are gone besides thinking our the plant from your pot to inspect?

Many thanks once again for the post!!

[skyfiery]

What en eyeopening post. I will definately give it a try. Although I bought triluxon to treat the root mealies, I will try using your method first. I have the same questions as Skyfire though.

Another question I have is that how do you confirm the root mealies are gone besides thinking our the plant from your pot to inspect?

Many thanks once again for the post!!

I went ahead last week to try the sugar method. I added two tablespoonfuls of raw sugar into my sawtooth coriander pot last Monday, and used that as a test (I'm fighting a spider mite war here, and my sawtooth coriander was placed far away from my plants, yet still heavily affected). In conjunction, I also used petunialee's method of using soapy water to crush against the underside of the leaves before rinsing them.

Four days later, I went to check, and the spider mites were back in full force on the sawtooth coriander. I went to smell the pot but it didn't have that...slightly strong/pungent scent of the sugar breaking down, so I *might have* washed the sugar away with top watering, which took away or lessened the effect.

So, another few tablespoonfuls of sugar and the same soapy method.

When I checked two days ago, there were only a few spider mites affecting it. I haven't checked today yet.

So I'll say that results remain inconclusive for me still.

Anyone tried it yet?

Sky

[kelmund]

I went ahead last week to try the sugar method. I added two tablespoonfuls of raw sugar into my sawtooth coriander pot last Monday, and used that as a test (I'm fighting a spider mite war here, and my sawtooth coriander was placed far away from my plants, yet still heavily affected). In conjunction, I also used petunialee's method of using soapy water to crush against the underside of the leaves before rinsing them.

Four days later, I went to check, and the spider mites were back in full force on the sawtooth coriander. I went to smell the pot but it didn't have that...slightly strong/pungent scent of the sugar breaking down, so I *might have* washed the sugar away with top watering, which took away or lessened the effect.

So, another few tablespoonfuls of sugar and the same soapy method.

When I checked two days ago, there were only a few spider mites affecting it. I haven't checked today yet.

So I'll say that results remain inconclusive for me still.

Anyone tried it yet?

Sky

sugar is only part of the formula, i said must use lime and phosphate and micros too.

[skyfiery]

sugar is only part of the formula, i said must use lime and phosphate and micros too.

Hm...I went to re-read your first post. It was one on sugar, with you writing that you use other fertilizers/minerals as part of *your* process, so it seems as if that post were geared towards sugar only.

Haha. I'll still go check on the sawtooth coriander (cheap plant, at least) to see if it does anything or not. Should prove an interesting experiment to have.

Thanks for the heads-up, though.

Sky

[LawrenceLee]

I'll try to reinterprete what Kelmund is saying here. I think the principles that he is trying to teach here are:
1) Weedkillers and pesticides do not help your plant to grow strong. In fact, a weedkiller will just as well harm your plant the same way it does in the weeds.
2) Instead, you should strive towards growing strong and healthy plants first, than labouring towards eradicating the weed/pest.
3) Because, a plant needs nutrition like us humans, it is essential that you give it a non-limiting pool of macro and micro nutrients (read full spectrum fertilisers) for it to feed. The incorrect way is fertilising only when deficiencies show. Doing the former is like taking a multivitamin daily - it promotes health. Doing the latter is akin to abusing the body till one is warded in the ICU, then go looking for medicine. (note that non limiting does not mean unlimited. In a non-limiting environment, the plant is not in need for any vitamin or mineral. In an unlimited environment, the plant is overdosed with fertilisers that salts up the soil/pots and escapes into the groundwater. That is no good).
4) A plant that is well fed will grow strongly. A strongly growing plant will be resistant to drought, pests and weeds. It will produce stores of energy (sugar), and that's what gives it its brix count.
5) You can assist your plant along its path to total health (after you had corrected its fertilisation regimen) by hand weeding, spot application of white oil to combat pests, maintaining humidity, airflow, etc. However, note that the first aim is ALWAYS to achieve a healthy, strongly growing plant. All your weeding/fumigating will come to nought if the plant is weak. That is because after you had removed one weed/pest, it will come back another day and find its home swept clean, and bring along seven other pests to stay on your weak plant. That makes your plant even worse off than if you had not weeded/fumigated in the first place.
6) Allow your plants to grow naturally - in other words resist the temptation to use hormones, intensive farming methods etc, to speed up your growth. Too fast a growth rate (just giving more N in the NPK package will give you this result), produces much green wood and soft leaves. While these are necessary, too much renders the plant the prime targets of sap sucking pests and high temps/drought. So when this happens, your joy in the fast growth will be short lived. Not only that, but a fast growing plant seldom flowers and fruits. Even when they do, the fruits don't taste as good as one that had grown with non limiting conditions, feeding on bio-available fertilisers.
7) To temper the effects of rapid growth from using NPK salts, (you can start your fertilising regimen with these initially), to get your plant up to speed. At the same time, provide it with the conditions for a micro-organism rich soil, so that it can be weaned off inorganic salts. Do this by adding compost and vegetable /fruit peels, to attract the bacteria-micro organism colony to take up shop in your soil. In time, these will step up their activities to take over and make bio-available organic fertilisers that will feed your plant for the long term.
8) Finally, the application of sugar to the soil is not going to directly fertilise the plant, but rather, it is to stimulate growth of yeast and bacteria that will help innoculate the soil with beneficial micro organisms that help your plants in a multitude ways, like fighting pests and making bioavailable, fertilisers that are "locked" in the chemical formulation of the soil.

This last point is mine: Don't over tend to your plants. A mollycoddled plant tends to grow weak. Instead, I tolerate a few weeds and a mealybug or two when I see it (at least I'll let it live it until the wife spots it and protests). A plant has Allelopatic means to resist weeds and pests. However, if we do our best to protect it from these, it will never develop its defence mechanism, and render it easy to be preyed upon.

Hope I had interpreted your intent correctly, Kelmund.

LL

[skyfiery]

Lawrence, that explanation is very clear. Now I understand better.

Thank you for taking the time to clear things up.

Sky

[michaelveg]

its interesting to read all these.

just a burning question:
if sugar is added, won't it attract lots of ants?
my house already have lots of ants to combat with - at least there are three different types of ants found here. The ants are so smart that they would dutifully go to any places seemingly impossible as long as there are food or sugar, even if that is the tiniest piece of food/sugar in our eyes.

This post has been edited by michaelveg: 19 June 2009 - 02:10 PM